One of the most overrated bands…

You and I are very much the same - I piss people off and shit disturb for the same reasons.

I’ll forgive you for not liking Bonham’s drumming :wink:

Remind me to never send you my music - as a progressive blues and roots artist, I’m all about blurring musical lines and genres, within records and songs. My stuff would likely drive you nuts!

Although wanting things to be clearly delineated sounds kind of conservative to me… hmmm…

wonders if his distaste for genre bending is proof that he’s a secret arch-conservative

ducks

:stuck_out_tongue:

So you turn your back for thirteen seconds (or that’s how it feels) and now we are calling Led Zeppelin overrated?

I fully understand they were a glorified cover band for their first years (not unlike Deep Purple Mark I), and that Plant’s voice can be a deal-breaker.

I will very gladly listen to, and become a fan of, any and all performances from early 1969 or before that capture all or even most of these things that are introduced here (and milked to death over the next twenty or so years).

To my best understanding absolutely nothing was this fast and heavy at that point in time. This is over a year before Paranoid.

I, II and most of III is basically untouchable in terms of what they do - steal, recycle, amplify and obliterate - and the first half of IV is very, very close to winning the best album side award in the history of heavy rock music.

A glorified cover band, yes, but then again, Maybellene is a rewrite of Ida Red, and that too, began basically everything we have now.

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Untouchable, yeah, that’s why I won’t go near it with a ten foot pole!

Blarfg!

More for you, Zeno, in fact, have all of it!

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Don’t worry Mike! There is no doubt that these “New Yardbirds” are gonna sink like a lead zeppelin. Any year now, they will be forgotten and irrelevant! Just like that other group, what was it called, Roundabout?

Here’s something that will be huge, instead! :wink:

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Maybe it’s because I have too “historicized” a vision of rock, and I’m the last person who should defend Zep here, but it seems to me that now you’re massacring them a bit too much.

They may have copied a lot, perhaps more than any other rock band, but the contribution they made with their first four albums and the two that followed was immense.

criticizing Robert for his young voice is pure madness.
the Red Hot singer on the Californication tour had 3 autotunes in series…what are we talking about?
Are you painting Robert as a lousy singer, am I wrong?

If you have problems with LZI and LZII I am truly amazed

Mike, I‘d be happy to hear your music, I don‘t criticize Zep for blurring genres (that is a good thing), I dislike how their instruments are not clearly configurated in the overall sound. I‘ve said it often before: Led Zep’s sound is the spiritual vision of an aural architect called Jimmy Page, Deep Purple‘s sound is the seamlessly accurate product of five clever engineers working together.

Being German, I prefer clever engineering to architectural art, that‘s all.

Or put more simply, Led Zep were a bunch of effete poseurs, that just about sums them up. Forests that echo with laughter my ass! :rofl:

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You’re absolutely correct I am - I think LZ 1-3 are mostly trash with a few good tunes here and there. LZ 4 is half great tunes, half trash and is split down the middle for me.

And yes, it is my opinion that Robert was not a very good singer starting out - he had little to questionable control over his pitch and there’s just something about his voice when he goes off pitch in his upper register that just grates on me.

Thankfully, by 1972 he’s figured out how to sing on pitch consistently that everything from Houses of the Holy onward is either great to half decent, with only a few bad tunes.

Jimmy Page… King of Sloppy Guitar Playing. The one thing I can’t stand about Page is he is so inconsistent in his lead work. His rhythm playing, I will grant, is mostly solid.

But as a lead player, he can go from grooving and in time to an absolute train wreck the next and then back in time… It drives me NUTS as a guitar player myself! His intonation on his bends is also highly questionable at times. My biggest gripe with Page is that he’s sloppy, lazy and inconsistent. If he’d bothered to apply himself he could’ve been one of the greats.

To me, he’s a mediocre guitar player who has occasional flashes of brilliance, and always has been. When he’s great, he’s wonderful, and when he’s not, he’s a shambles of a train wreck.

But yeah, Flavio, those first three records are a total train wreck for me. Disaster cats all around!

In particular, I can’t stand LZ2, it’s the worst record I’ve ever heard in my life, from start to finish.

If it’s a major contribution to rock music, then surely, I say, rock music can do so much better than that hot mess!

And yes, I’m being honest, this really is how I feel about and experience Led Zeppelin! I know I have an unpopular opinion here, and I’m sticking to my guns! You’re just gonna have to accept I Utterly Despise those records and the early period of the band.

Go ahead and love them, but they are definitely not for me!

Later period? I fucking love them.

Go figure!

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I’m very fond of Stairway, actually, I think it’s their masterpiece, but I hear ya!

Yeah, their mixes can be muddy, I agree.

Clever German engineering, eh?

Fair enough man!

And I’ll DM you a link to my stuff with your written consent.

For now, I have a concert review to write and submit for last night’s Purple show, so if you will all excuse me, I’ll defend my defenestrations of LZ at a later time! For now, I have work to do!

Well, I think “Stairway to Heaven” is one of the most boring songs in the history of rock. :blush:

Thanks, AndreA, for someone saying it. LZ habe written good things, but STW, a lumbering mash-up of several song ideas, is not among it.

Re Jimmy Page: Good sloppy playing is an art too and he excels at it. He‘s a more versatile guitarist than Ritchie and extremely good with unusual chords and different tunings, something Ritchie has little grasp of nor interest in. As regards chordal harmonic complexity, comparing Stargazer to Kashmir is plain laughable, it’s like saying a Volkswagen Beetle is similar to a Ferrari, both have four wheels.

At the end of the day, Ritchie is “better” than Page only as regards pure soloing (Blackmore at his peak had far greater pick control and more over-the-complete-fretboard dexterity - Page solos in “boxes” mostly) and coming up with riffs that while more simplistic than Page’s are also catchier. But in those two categories he was WAY better, and as regards the ability to solo Jimmy has even always freely admitted that. (I don’t think that Ritchie’s riffs impressed him much, they are way too straightforward for Page’s more convoluted, but also idiosyncratic approach to riffing.) Much more than Ritchie he saw himself also as a rhythm guitarist and enjoyed doing it.

Fundamentally, in outlook, eclecticism and how they went about their art, LZ are more a representative of British Prog rock than of heavy rock as a genre. If you discarded the dozen or two real hard rock numbers they have written over the course of their career, everybody would regard them as a Prog band. DP, while not totally devoid of Prog influences themselves, are much more entrenched in the heavy rock field.

You do realize that, according to your own logic, this means you rate “Slaves and Masters” higher, right? :smiley:

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I guess if you don’t like loud blues-based rock music, Led Zeppelin II can be quite an acquired taste.

Personally, though…

there’s a feeling I get when the needle drops on the surface of a vinyl record spinning at 33 rpm, and the sound of a crude electric guitar fills the air. Over a three-note blues riff, the mighty roar of the Lion of Albion convinces that baby needs to cool down, get supplementary education and, of course, a whole lot of love, bass rumbles like thunder and a dead man beats the drums with a fury that has never been engraved on a disc before. At that moment, heavy metal music is born again, and I return to that distant first time of mine in the mid-nineties, when this had happened only a quarter of a century ago.

Anyway, as you were saying, shite band, worse music, singer has no pitch, bad solos, and ruthless thieves on top of it all.

Not the “If this group makes it, I’ll have to commit suicide” level of (ultimately empty, as I understand) threats, yet, though. That is reserved for the other heavy metal band I might have to ask you guys about sometime later. Probably the most -rated band in the world, that one.

Uriah Heep (in De Niro voice): “You talkin to me? You talkin’ to me?”

Indeed, there are no reports of music journalist Melissa Mills taking her own life :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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https://youtu.be/w5k9Bpkcn4s?si=gfRrdC0j1B1SPnM6&t=193

Lyrical genius is present here!

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It is not true at all (for me)

For example

I’ve always preferred Free to Led Zeppelin (well, speaking for myself, obviously); they were a truly original, non-commercial band. Perhaps it’s because I always perceived them as a bit of a struggling, underdog act—unlike Led Zeppelin, who always seemed to have everything laid out and ready for them on a silver platter (a great manager and a lot of ripping off other people’s work).

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No doubt Free are a loud, blues-based rock band. Many a good thing can be said about them. For example, Fire And Water is a great record, and All Right Now is among the best songs ever. They are good - at times, very, very good - but there is, if you will, a transcendent quality in the first Zeppelin records that Free, for all their hard work, do not even strive to achieve. It is like witnessing the birth of something that has not previously existed.

Similarly, Diamond Head wanted to be the “Zeppelin for the Eighties” and if they had been able to keep at what they were doing, that would not have been far-fetched. As we know, that was not to be - but the same kind of traces of transcendence are there.

Don’t worry, I’m not expecting you to agree. :wink:

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LZ stole (who didn’t?), but they were also innovative and eclectic. Credit where credit’s due.

Free were a nice little rock band with fine musicians, but about as innovative as CCR. No one would have called them more significant than The Beatles either. Well Karin would have because The Georgia Satellites/Dan Baird are sort of a CCR/John Fogerty tribute. :rofl:

Paul Rodgers is a brilliant singer but also the perfect representation of a musical conservative (no wonder a radio electrician from Heathrow liked him). Even Free was still too edgy for him so he formed Bad Company whose main credo was: “Let’s not offend anyone and we’re commercially all set!

(That said, I prefer most of Free and BC to most of LZ, but that has nothing to do with cultural significance or pushing the envelope.)

If there is one thing to be said in favor of LZ: They never bowed to fan or public expectations, but ploughed their own furrow. For that they have my grudging respect. No two Zep studio albums are similar.

And if Led Zep II is too raw for you, what the hell is In Rock then?

d4ff2d949e3a195741f1026fbd3ecf9c
PS: Plant without his trademark out-of-tune’isms, are you serious?! That was part of his magic, he would use his voice like a guitar with lots of bendings. Correct that and you take so much away from him …

https://youtu.be/yxX2u8iggYI

PPS: See how I tick? I can criticize what I love and I can find redeeming qualities in things I actively dislike. That seems to confuse a lot of people.

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well Jimi also made riffs as simple as some of Purple’s:
communication breakdown, Whole lotta love, r’n’r, heartbreaker they are the first that come to mind…

oh yeah sorry, they’re not his riffs :sweat_smile:

The Rolling Stones didn’t write this either (Sonny Bono did), but it’s still Brian & Keef who play the guitar parts and together, the band turn it into a 94-second monster in its own right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inrb3zvRxsE

The difference is that they voluntarily chose to pay royalties for it. :wink:

And… I think one could postulate that there is an inkling of humour here at play, as we are all fans of the band who gave us, for example, Bombay Calling, Maria Moita and “Well, I’ve never heard it, let’s do it anyway"…

My God, Mike, don’t be all complicated about it, send me your stuff either per WhatsApp

+49 175 931 79 76

or per email

uwe.hornung@cliffordchance.com

I hate stuffy communication and unlike most people apparently, my life offers very few scandalous insights.